Re: Ukraine - land of the cowards?

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: : : : : Nowhere I can't find really brave ukrainians, always an ukrainian is another word for conformism. 10 years of "independence" and what : : : : : In 1990 the ukrainians were not brave enough to elect not(ex)communist, : : : : It has nothing to do with bravery. I'm sure that if everyone who voted for Kravchuk would see what we will become in 9 years, they would change their minds. Both Kuchma and Kravchuk played on the minds of eastern Ukrainians, who were (and many still are) Russian-oriented. Both of our pathetic excuses for presidents couldn't care less about the people's will. In their understanding, people are just a tool, which, if used effectively, will guide to money and power. : : : :I think that enough in all Ukrainian problems blame eastern Ukrainians, : : Many problems Ukraine has right now wouldn't exist if not for traditionally pro-Russian East, which drags Ukraine two steps back every time it makes an attempt to make a step forward. I am myself from Eastern Ukraine, but nevertheless I think we (in general, of course) are responsible. : *I don't know, what did the eastern Ukrainians? Are they from hell, or something? Do you have any example about some people from western Ukraine who did something good and not just blah-blah-blah? : : : because Kuchma was nominated in Dnepropetrovsk (eastern Ukraine), but also in Ivano-Frankovsk (western Ukraine). : : When? In the second round? I don't think we had much choice. It was a matter of choosing the lesser evil. : * And now everybody can endjoy "lesser evil", everybody happy-happy! : : : Kravchuk is from western Ukraine too : : But he won the election because of eastern Ukrainians, who voted for him. : *I can remember, that in Kharkiv, for example, won Chernovil (in city), but peasans in eastern Ukraine just lost everything, including soul, because of communist terror and vodka, this not an issue to blame them, the issue is to help them, because to-day they afraid more of local Ukrainian rascals then of something else. And to say about E-L-E-C-T-I-O-N-S in contemporary Ukraine... : : : and late Chernovil not and some people from Lviv steals money from Ukrainian folk with same enthusiasm as gangsters in Lugansk do. : : Interesting, when did Chornovil "steal money"? : *Chornovil did not, but look in Lviv for new buildings of the people with official salarys about $50, probably they got money from alchemy or something, some of them suppose to struggle with corruption, anyway. : : : :And about "if everyone would know about the future...", this is exactly my point about absents of bravery, because bravery is something completly different, you should read about UPA or something... : : : : : in 1994 they choose for spineless Kuchma, in 1999 idem dito and now they begging everywhere for some change but when somebody give them something they going abroad to spent it! And who trying to sell self as ukrainian "diaspora" is another story, but anyway, who hears about them, they busy to kiss asses of the former apparatchiki's and now "ministers" and "ambassadors" and cry from the rooftops about "freedom" in Ukraine (but nobody from them want to live over there!). : : : : Diaspora has a weird understanding of Ukraine and Ukrainians. They follow traditions, but lost their Ukrainian identity long ago. They created their own Ukraine, which has little to do with modern Ukraine, it's problems and daily life. Some are really helping, but relatively few. Not that they are obliged to. : : : :Yeah, they don't obliged to understand something about Ukraine, all right, but if they want in the future to preserve "weird understanding" and they also want to kiss asses of the degenerats from contemporary Ukrainian goverment, better for them to call self not Ukrainians, but something different, how about Hohols (Hohly)? : : : : : I don't ask somebody from West to answer, becouse people there can not find Ukraine on the map, : : : : Most Canadians point right to it. : : : : probably most Ukrainian Canadians do, but I work with Canadians from Monthreal and they did not even hear about Ukraine, but they are, probably, not Canadians at all? : : In Ontario, where I live, there are many Ukrainians and most Canadians know where Ukraine is located. In Alberta or Manitoba, they probably know much much more. Maybe in Quebec Ukraine is unknown because there are virtually no Ukrainians there? : *Thus even geographically understanding of Ukraine inside of Canada a little bit blown out of proportion? I tryed search engines in some Canadian newspapers (online) about "Ukraine"... just try it youself. : : : : : : : : let not ask about understanding, but so called ukrainians, do you got nerve to answer? : : : : Having left Ukraine two years ago and coming back this summer, am I also considered "so-called"? Just curious. : : : : Having left Ukraine 5 years ago and afraid to come back because of the freaks in goverment, : : I don't understand the reason. You wouldn't visit Ukraine because of "freaks in government"? Why, if you have Canadian or American passport, what can they do? : *What they always do with people, they changed Ukraine in torture instrument for something like 50% of population (this is already not good to see), and if they want to put you in jail for something? I don't want even think about it! Go to www.kudin.org to see for yourself. : : : I really don't know

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